Bhagavad Gita - Chapter 4 - Shloka (Verse) 10

व्याख्या--'वीतरागभयक्रोधाः'--परमात्मासे विमुख होनेपर नाशवान् पदार्थोंमें 'राग' हो जाता है। रागसे फिर प्राप्तमें 'ममता' और अप्राप्तकी कामना उत्पन्न होती है। रागवाले (प्रिय) पदार्थोंकी प्राप्ति होनेपर तो 'लोभ' होता है, पर उनकी प्राप्तिमें बाधा पहुँचनेपर (बाधा पहुँचानेवालेपर) 'क्रोध' होता है। यदि बाधा पहुँचानेवाला व्यक्ति अपनेसे अधिक बलवान् हो और उसपर अपना वश न चल सकता हो तथासमयपर वह हमारा अनिष्ट कर देगा--ऐसी सम्भावना हो तो 'भय' होता है। इस प्रकार नाशवान् पदार्थोंके रागसे ही भय, क्रोध, लोभ, ममता, कामना आदि सभी दोषोंकी उत्पत्ति होती है। रागके मिटनेपर ये सभी दोष मिट जाते हैं। पदार्थोंको अपना और अपने लिये न मानकर, दूसरोंका और दूसरोंके लिये मानकर उनकी सेवा करनेसे राग मिटता है। कारण कि वास्तवमें पदार्थ और क्रियासे हमारा सम्बन्ध है ही नहीं।अपना कोई प्रयोजन न रहनेपर भी भगवान् केवल हमारे कल्याणके लिये ही अवतार लेते हैं। कारण कि वे प्राणीमात्रके परम सुहृद् हैं और उनकी सम्पूर्ण क्रियाएँ मात्र जीवोंके कल्याणके लिये ही होती हैं। इस प्रकार भगवान्की परम सुहृत्तापर दृढ़ विश्वास होनेसे भगवान्में आकर्षण हो जाता है। भगवान्में आकर्षण होनेसे संसारका आकर्षण (राग) स्वतः मिट जाता है। जैसे, बचपनमें बालकोंका कंकड़-पत्थरोंमें आकर्षण होता है और उनसे वे खेलते हैं। खेलमें वे कंकड़-पत्थरोंके लिये लड़ पड़ते हैं। एक कहता है कि यह मेरा है और दूसरा कहता है कि यह मेरा है। इस प्रकार गलीमें पड़े कंकड़-पत्थरोंमें ही उन्हें महत्ता दीखती है। परन्तु जब वे बड़े हो जाते हैं ,तब कंकड़-पत्थरोंमें उनका आकर्षण मिट जाता है और रुपयोंमें आकर्षण हो जाता है। रुपयोंमें आकर्षण होनेपर उन्हें कंकड़पत्थरोंमें अथवा खिलौनोंमें कोई महत्ता नहीं दीखती। ऐसे ही जब मनुष्यकी परमात्मामें लगन लग जाती है तब उसके लिये संसारके रुपये और सब पदार्थ आकर्षक न रहकर फीके पड़ जाते हैं। उसका संसारमें आकर्षण या राग मिट जाता है। राग मिटते ही भय और क्रोध दोनों मिट जाते हैं क्योंकि ये दोनों रागके ही आश्रित रहते हैं।

यह मोक्षमार्ग अभी आरम्भ हुआ है ऐसी बात नहीं किंतु पहले भी जिनके राग भय और क्रोध चले गये हैं ऐसे रागादि दोषोंसे रहित ईश्वरमें तन्मय हुए ईश्वरसे अपना अभेद समझनेवाले ब्रह्मवेत्ता और मुझ परमेश्वरके ही आश्रित केवल ज्ञाननिष्ठामें स्थित ऐसे बहुतसे महापुरुष परमात्मविषयक ज्ञानरूप तपसे परमशुद्धिको प्राप्त होकर मुझ ईश्वरके भावको मोक्षको प्राप्त हो गये हैं। ज्ञानतपसा यह विशेषण इस बातका द्योतक है कि ज्ञाननिष्ठा अन्य तपोंकी अपेक्षा नहीं रखती।

Now, anticipating the doubt that the path of liberation currently presented might be unstable (unestablished) due to being new, he resolves it with Naisha (Not this...).

He shows that Manmayatva (being absorbed in Me) is not a repetition of Madbhavagamana (attaining My being) with the words Brahmavid (Knower of Brahman), etc.

He excludes the knowing of Brahman as different from the Self, or as both different and non-different, with the word Ishvara (Lord...).

He refutes the performance of Action (Karma) in combination with the vision of non-difference with Mam eva (Me alone...).

He clarifies the very state of taking refuge in Him with Kevala (Only...).

Having stated the steadfastness in knowledge alone by Mamupashritah (Taking refuge in Me), why is it repeated Purified by the austerity of knowledge? To this, he says Itara (Other...).

He wards off the 'modernity' of this path of liberation with Vita... etc. 'Raga' (Attachment) is a specific modification of the mind consisting of coloring/delight in sense-objects. 'Bhaya' (Fear) arises from the abandonment or destruction of objects. 'Krodha' (Anger) is towards those who create obstacles in the attainment of objects, or those who beat or shout. Those from whom these attachment, etc., are 'Vita'—gone/departed; therefore they are 'Manmaya'—seers of non-difference with the Lord.

He wards off the coexistence of the performance of rituals (Karma). 'Mam eva'—Taking refuge in Me, the Supreme Lord, alone. The meaning is: steadfast in Knowledge alone. Following the maxim 'Because liberation is taught for one steadfast in That,' they have no dependence on other actions (Karma).

Making it known that only those steadfast in Knowledge are liberated, He qualifies it. 'Bahavo'—Many; Knowledge itself is the austerity (Tapas); purified by that, they attained supreme purity; due to the destruction of past sins and the non-adherence of future ones. Following the maxim (Brahma Sutra 4.1.13): 'Upon attaining That, there is non-clinging and destruction of subsequent and previous sins, because it is so declared.' 'Madbhavam'—attained Brahman-hood, i.e., Liberation.

As for the (alternative) interpretation: 'Manmayah' means having minds solely on Me; 'Mamupashritah' means having taken refuge in Me, the Lord, with exclusive devotion; (Jnanatapasa means) by Self-knowledge obtained by My grace and by Tapas—meaning Swadharma which is the cause of the ripening of that knowledge—by these two (treated as a singular group in compound); 'Putah' means purified, devoid of ignorance and its effects (dirt); attained 'Madbhavam' meaning Sayujya (union)—regarding this, the following should be understood: There is no reason to abandon the literal meaning of the word 'Manmaya'; therefore, in accordance with the meaning of that word, the explanation of 'Mamupashritah' given in the Bhashya (by Shankara) is indeed correct. Also, the interpretation involving 'Self-knowledge and (Tapas)...' is not correct, because of the contingency of 'Samuchchaya' (combining Karma/Bhakti with Jnana, which the author opposes).

And the interpretation that 'Madbhavam' means feeling/love towards Me called Rati—that too is questionable (Chintyam), because of the contingency of lack of consistency with the preceding text 'Tyaktva deham' (Having abandoned the body, etc. in verse 9).

"And there are indeed those who are liberated in that manner"—He states this with "Vitaraga..." etc.

"Manmayah" means "Mat-prachurah" (Abounding in Me/Full of Me); the meaning is that they see nothing anywhere without Me (except Me).

He states the gateway to this attainment of the Lord (mentioned in the previous verse) with "Vita" etc. "Raga" is love for sense objects; "Bhaya" is the apprehension of one's own destruction; "Krodha" is the burning (anger) towards causes that inflict pain on oneself or others; those from whom these three are "Vita"—gone—are "Vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah".

Therefore, they are "Manmayah"—those for whom I alone am the principal object. Do they rely on Me like an adulteress who relies on both her paramour and her husband for her maintenance? No, He says—"Mamupashritah" (Taking refuge in Me alone).

"Jnanatapasa"—by the austerity of knowledge; 'Alochana' (contemplation) is the austerity; the constant thinking of My birth, actions, and nature is the "knowledge-austerity"—purified by that "knowledge-austerity" which is celebrated in the Shruti "Whose austerity consists of knowledge"—they attained "Madbhavam"—identity with Me. This is the meaning.

Purified by the austerity (Tapas) named 'the knowledge of the truth of My birth and actions', 'Bahavah' (many) have become 'Evam' (thus/like this).

And to that effect is the Shruti: "The wise know His source/birth." The meaning is that "Dhirah"—those who are foremost among the wise—alone know the mode of His birth.

Not only do I protect those who seek to take refuge in Me by incarnating in forms like gods, men, etc., but also...

"How can attainment of You occur through the knowledge of birth and action?" Addressing this, He says "Vita..." etc.

Knowing My supreme compassion—that "I perform the protection of Dharma through incarnations of Pure Sattva"—those from whom attachment (Raga), fear (Bhaya), and anger (Krodha) have "Vita" (departed)—due to the absence of mental distractions. Becoming "Manmayah"—having their minds solely on Me, and "Mamupashritah"—taking refuge in Me alone; by "Self-knowledge" obtained through My grace and by "Tapas"—meaning one's own duty (Swadharma) which is the cause of the ripening of that knowledge—by these two (here 'Jnanatapasa' is a Dvandva compound treated as singular); "Putah"—purified, cleansed, devoid of the dirt of ignorance and its effects by that 'knowledge-austerity'; "Bahavah" (many) have attained "Madbhavam"—My Sayujya (Union). The meaning is that this path of devotion to Me has not commenced just now (it is ancient).

Thus, in this section—beginning with "I know them all" etc.—having shown the entities of 'Tat' (the Lord) and 'Tvam' (the individual) through the adjuncts (Upadhis) of Knowledge (Vidya) and Ignorance (Avidya); and given that the Lord is eternally pure due to the absence of Avidya, and the Jiva becomes pure upon the removal of ignorance through knowledge obtained by the Lord's grace; it should be seen that their 'Unity' (Aikyam) is stated in terms of the aspect of Pure Consciousness (Chid-amsha).

That this very meaning—given as an answer to doubts like "the futility of Upasana"—is being stated by the verse "Vitaraga..." is indicated by "Tadaha" (He states that). That same 'knowledge' presented earlier is here called "Jnanatapasa" (by the austerity of knowledge). "Manmayah Mamupashritah" (Absorbed in Me, taking refuge in Me)—this refers to the knowledge which is the means to that [liberation] through a sequence (Parampara); with this intention, [the previous Bhashya] said "Madiya" (My divine...).

Since this verse was practically explained in the [commentary of the] previous verse, "Evam samvrittah" (Thus they became) is stated briefly. To explain: the meaning of "Purified by the austerity of knowledge" was elaborated [previously] starting from "Madiya..." up to "Papma" (sin). By the phrase "Mamashritya" (Taking refuge in Me), the meaning of "Mamupashritah" was stated. By the phrase "Madekapriyah" (I being the sole dear one), the meaning of "Vitaragabhayakrodhah" is intended. For 'Raga' is love for other objects; 'Krodha' is the desire to destroy those opposed to them; 'Bhaya' is the anticipation of the arrival of evil that opposes the desired object in the future. All of this does not exist in the devotees of Vasudeva, because, He being their sole beloved, there is absence of attachment to other objects; consequently, there is absence of anger rooted in that; and since there is no desired or undesired object other than His attainment or non-attainment, there is absence of fear. And this is well-known in texts like "No anger, nor jealousy" (Mahabharata 13.149.134).

"Madekachittah" (Mind solely on Me) is the meaning of "Manmayah". "Manmayah" means those who are 'Prachura' (filled/abounding) with Me, who is the object of knowledge; because meanings like 'identity' (Taadaatmya) or 'modification' (Vikara) are untenable here (grammatically/philosophically), and if 'Inner Controller' (Antaryami) is intended, that is common to all beings (so it wouldn't be a distinctive qualification). The interpretation given by Shankara that "Manmayah" means "Seers of non-difference with the Lord" is refuted because it contradicts the commencement of the scripture (Gita), etc., and because the word does not express that meaning.

By "Mam eva prapnoti" (Attains Me alone), the meaning of "Madbhavam agatah" (Attained My being) is shown. Since even in the state of liberation, 'absolute identity' (Taadaatmya) is contradicted by Shruti, Smriti, their implication (Arthapatti), and Sutras; and since even here the distinction between the object and agent of attainment is made in "Mameti so'rjuna" (He comes to Me, O Arjuna - 4.9); and since it will be said later "They have attained My likeness" (Mama sadharmyam agatah - 14.2); therefore, "Madbhavam agatah" means "Attained My nature, such as freedom from sin, etc." Or, like in "He becomes Brahman indeed" (Mundaka Up. 3.2.9), the designation is due to 'extreme likeness'.

That there is a Shruti text regarding the necessity of knowing the secret of the Avatar is stated by "Tatha cha" (And so). He explains the agreement with the stated meaning with "Dhimatamagresara..." (Foremost among the wise). Thus, by the definition of the word 'Dhira', the possession of firm/unbroken knowledge leading up to the aforementioned 'Attainment of the Lord' is stated. In "Parijananti" (know thoroughly), the prefix (Pari) implies the "manner as it truly is" described before; to indicate this, it is said [in the Bhashya] "Thus they know the mode of His birth." In the reading "Dhimatamagresara eva" (The foremost among the wise alone), the exclusive injunction implies the negation of the rest—this is the purport.

इस श्लोक में अध्यात्म साधना एवं साध्य दोनों को ही स्पष्टरूप से बताया गया है किसी भी साधक के लिये राग और उसके कार्यों का त्याग किये बिना कोई उन्नति करना संभव नहीं क्योंकि वे सदैव उसके मार्ग में बाधा उत्पन्न करते रहते हैं। एक बार मन इनसे उत्पन्न विक्षेपों से रहित होकर शान्त और स्थिरचित्त हो जाता है तब पूर्णत्व की स्थिति उसके जीवन का एक मात्र लक्ष्य होती है जो उसे आगे बढ़ने के लिये उत्साहित करती है। आत्मविकास की इस स्थिति पर पहुँचने पर उस साधक को शास्त्राध्ययन की योग्यता प्राप्त होती है।उपनिषदों में वर्णित आत्मप्राप्ति की साधना इस प्रकार है (क) गुरु के चरणों के पास बैठकर वेदान्त का श्रवण (ख) श्रवण किये हुए विषय पर युक्ति पूर्वक मनन और (ग) इस प्रकार जाने हुए आत्मतत्त्व का निदिध्यासन अर्थात् ध्यान। वेदान्त के सिद्धान्त का अध्ययन और उस ज्ञान के अनुसार जीवन में आचरण करने को ही इस श्लोक में ज्ञानतप कहा गया।कुछ व्याख्याकारों के मतानुसार इस श्लोक में कर्म भक्ति एवं ज्ञान इन तीनों योगों के समुच्चय का उपदेश दिया गया है। कैसे उनके अनुसार कर्मयोग की भावना से अपने कार्य क्षेत्र में कर्म किये बिना राग भय और क्रोध निवृत्ति नहीं हो सकती। मन्मया और मामुपाश्रिता अर्थात् मुझमें स्थित और मेरे शरण हुए इन शब्दों में भक्तियोग का संकेत है क्योंकि ईश्वर की शरण में गया हुआ भक्त भगवान् के साथ में एकरूप हो जाता है। आत्मानात्मविवेक करके आत्मा के साथ तादात्म्य रखने के प्रयत्न को ज्ञानयोग कहते हैं जिसे यहाँ ज्ञानतप कहा गया है। इन सबका निष्कर्ष यह है कि भिन्नभिन्न प्रतीत होने वाले साधना मार्गों का अनुसरण करने पर साघकगण मुझ परमात्मा को ही प्राप्त होते हैं।वास्तव में देखा जाय तो ये समस्त साधनामार्ग मन को साधन सम्पन्न बनाने के लिये ही हैं जिसे शास्त्रीय भाषा में अन्तकरण शुद्धि कहते हैं। हममें से कुछ लोगों का अपनी देह के साथ अत्यधिक तादात्म्य होता है। कुछ व्यक्ति अधिक भावुक होते हैं तो अन्य लोग बुद्धिवादी। इन सबके लिये एक ही प्रकार के साधन का उपदेश करने पर इस बात की सम्भावना रहती है कि उसे सार्वभौमिक स्वीकृति न मिले तथा सबके लिये उसकी उपयोगिता सिद्ध न हो सके।यह स्पष्ट है कि साधना मार्गों में विविधता होने पर भी सभी साधकों का आत्मानुभव एक ही है। यह एक विवादरहित तथ्य है क्योंकि विश्व के आध्यात्मिक साहित्य के अध्ययन करने पर ऐसा प्रतीत होता है मानो प्रत्येक सन्त ने अपने पूर्वकालीन साहित्य से विचारों को लेकर उनकी नयी प्रति प्रस्तुत कर दी हो इसका अर्थ यह हुआ कि भगवान् रागद्वेषवान् हैं क्योंकि वे किसी को मोक्ष प्रदान करते हैं और अन्यों को नहीं। इस पर कहते हैं

Vita (Gone...) etc.

And knowing thus, due to being 'Manmaya' (absorbed in Me)—meaning due to having their desires fulfilled (or having the fullness of Will)—and being devoid of anger etc., while performing duties (actions that must be done) without (desire for) fruit, many have attained My true nature.

Moreover, since there is a restatement of 'more' in the subsequent verse, 'only this much' is not intended here (in the previous verse)—with this intent, he states the purport with 'Santi cha' (And there are).

By the knowledge 'described as such'—he says. 'For generating faith'—is the remainder.

To refute the perception that 'Manmaya' means 'Madatmaka' (identical to Me/My nature), he explains 'Manmaya' (as absorbed in Me).

'The Lord is common/abundant to all, what is the specialty of the Knower?'—to this he says 'Sarvatra' (Everywhere). In all objects, whatever 'existence' etc. is there; (Knowers) see everything as dependent on Me alone; this is the meaning.

"He comes to Me, O Arjuna"—in this statement, He shows His own status as the Supreme Goal (Purushartha) by being the one attained by all the liberated, and shows that this path of liberation has come down through beginningless tradition.

"Raga" (Attachment) is the thirst for the fruit of that (action). "Bhaya" (Fear) is the terror: "How is one to live on the path of knowledge having abandoned all objects?" "Krodha" (Anger) is the hatred thinking: "How can this path of knowledge, which annihilates all objects, be beneficial?" Those from whom these attachment, fear, and anger are "Vita"—departed through discrimination—are "Vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah"; they are of pure Sattva. "Manmayah"—those who have realized Me, the Supreme Self (the meaning of 'Tat'), as non-different from the meaning of 'Tvam' (the individual self). Or, having their minds solely on Me, "Mamupashritah"—having taken refuge in Me, the Lord, with exclusive loving devotion.

"Bahavo"—many. "Jnanatapasa"—Knowledge itself is the austerity (Tapas), because it is the cause of the destruction of all actions. For He will say later, "Indeed, there is nothing here as purifying as knowledge." "Putah"—purified by that; having all their sins destroyed, being devoid of the dirt of ignorance and its effects.

"Madbhavam"—attained My nature, the pure mass of Existence-Consciousness-Bliss, i.e., Moksha; attained liberation merely by the removal of ignorance. OR (Alternative view): Purified by the austerity of knowledge, being Jivanmuktas (liberated while living), they attained "Madbhavam"—meaning the feeling directed towards Me, the Love called 'Rati'. For He will say, "Of them, the wise man (Jnani), ever steadfast and devoted to the One, excels."

Thus, having stated the attainment of Himself for the devotees through the knowledge of the nature of His manifestation, He now states the nature of His attainment through 'Knowledge' in the verse "Vitaraga...".

Many, being purified by "Jnanatapasa"—by austerity endowed with knowledge; "Mamupashritah"—having come 'Upa' (near); who have taken mere refuge but have not performed Service (Seva) etc.; such "Manmayah"—seeing My form everywhere as the form of Knowledge, and having merged in that alone, having come (taken birth?), they attain "Madbhavam"—Liberation.

What are they like? "Vitaragabhayakrodhah"—devoid of the adversaries of knowledge (attachment, fear, and anger).

"Vitaragabhayakrodhah"—Those from whom attachment (Raga), fear (Bhaya), and anger (Krodha) have "Vita"—departed—are "Vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah". "Manmayah"—Knowers of Brahman, seers of non-difference with the Lord. And "Mam eva upashritah"—taking refuge in Me, the Supreme Lord, alone; the meaning is: steadfast in Knowledge alone.

"Bahavah"—Many. "Jnanatapasa"—Knowledge regarding the Supreme Self is itself the austerity (Tapas); "Putah"—purified by that austerity of knowledge, having attained supreme purity; "Agatah"—have attained—"Madbhavam"—the state of the Lord, Liberation.

The adjective "Jnanatapasa" (by the austerity of knowledge) is the sign (indication) that this steadfastness in Knowledge is independent of other austerities.

(Introduction to next verse): "Then, do You possess attachment and aversion, whereby You grant the state of Selfhood only to some and not to all?" To this, it is said...

Moreover, if My birth and action were material (Prakrita), then no one taking refuge in Me would be liberated; but they are seen to be liberated. Thus He says "Vita...".

Many who took refuge in Me, the Perfect Supreme Person—like the Gopis, Kansa, Chaidya (Shishupala), etc.—(were liberated) by this very Avatar. The word 'Vita' is signaled in Sankhya as 'non-pervasion' (Avyapti), just as the Sutra says "Vita-nivita-parichayye".

Thus, those pervaded by mental agony (Adhi?), or rather pervaded by Attachment (Raga), pervaded by Fear (Bhaya), or pervaded by Anger (Krodha)—even though possessing those respective adjuncts (Upadhis), they were void of those respective faults and were purified; they were faultless due to the power of the Object (God) Himself. Therefore, some by Knowledge—following the 'logic of the worm and the wasp' (Kita-bhringa-nyaya) with the feeling "I am He"; others taking refuge in Kshatriya Dharma by Tapas (austerity); others purified by 'Tapa' (heat of anguish/fear) and becoming 'Manmaya' (absorbed in Me); or purified by the form of Knowledge of My form, birth, etc.—at the time of the exhaustion of Prarabdha, having abandoned the material body, they attained a divine, glorious body (Bhagavati-tanu) beyond the worlds. With this intention, "Madbhavam agatah" (attained My state) describes their arrival at their own (true) status.

Thus, many—Divine, Demoniac, and Discriminating ones—are described as liberated having attained My state; the meaning is that this path of taking refuge in Me has not commenced just now (it is eternal).

By this, it is indicated that the liberated souls in the all-pervading Vaikuntha are devoid of material bodies, senses, and life-force, but are Divine and are 'Many' (plurality of liberated souls); by this, other partial (Ekadeshika) views are refuted.

वीतरागभयक्रोधाः freed from attachment? fear and anger? मन्मयाः absorbed in Me? माम् Me? उपाश्रिताः taking refuge in? बहवः many? ज्ञानतपसा by the fire of knowledge? पूताः purified? मद्भावम् My Being? आगताः have attained.Commentary When one gets knowledge of the Self? attachment to senseobjects ceases. When he realises he is the constant? indestructible? eternal Self and that change is simply a ality of the body? then he becomes fearless. When he becomes desireless? when he is free from selfishness? when he beholds the Self only everywhere? how can anger arise in himHe who takes refuge in Brahman or the Absolute becomes firmly devoted to Him. He becomes,absorbed in Him (Brahmalina or Brahmanishtha). Jnanatapas is the fire of wisdom. Just as fire burns cotton? so also this Jnanatapas burns all the latent tendencies (Vasanas)? cravings (Trishnas)? mental impressions (Samskaras)? sins and all actions? and purifies the aspirants. (Cf.II.56IV.19to37).

Bahavah, many; vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah, who were devoid of attachment, fear and anger; manmayah, who were absorbed in Me, who were knowers of Brahman, who were seers of (their) identity with God; mam upasrithah, who had taken refuge only in Me, the supreme God, i.e. who were steadfast in Knowledge alone; and were putah, purified, who had become supremely sanctified; jnana-tapasa, by the austerity of Knowledge-Knowledge itself, about the supreme Reality, being the austerity; becoming sanctified by that austerity of Knowledge-; agatah, have attained; madbhavam, My state, Goodhood, Liberation.
The particular mention of 'the austerity of Knowledge' is to indicate that steadfastness in Knowledge does not depend on any other austerity.
'In that case, You have love and aversion, because of which You grant the state of identity with Yourself only to a few but not to others?'
The answer is:

Purified by the austerity called knowledge of the truth of My life and deeds, many have become transformed in this manner. The Sruti says to the same effect: 'The wise know well the manner in which He is born' (Tai. A., 3.13.1). 'Dhiras' means the foremost among the wise. The meaning is the wise know the manner of His birth thus.
It is not that I protect only those who resort to Me in incarnations in the shapes of gods, men etc.